Touring and "sessions" - medium/high levels

Joined: 16 Oct 2005 Posts: 366 Location: Italy

Hi guys do you have advices for becoming a touring drummer in the metal community?
Do you know some european metal band (professional one) who are looking for a reliable drummer?

I know that they don't pay a lot...or that they DON't pay sometimes BUT I really enjoy touring and touring is something really good for my carreer here in Italy.

Joined: 16 Aug 2009 Posts: 249

General advice=stamp your name every where you go. Keep your eyes on Myspace profiles. Get to talking with some random guys in the industry to see who they know.

Joined: 04 Dec 2006 Posts: 2287 Location: Mars

Raphael_chaoswave wrote:

Hi guys do you have advices for becoming a touring drummer in the metal community?

Find a band that's going on tour and needs a drummer - simple as that.

There aren't many, but they're around. Wink

If you want to make any amount of money on tour, that's a different discussion.

Quote:

Do you know some european metal band (professional one) who are looking for a reliable drummer?

If there was, you can bet they've already got someone in mind for the gig.

Professional bands almost always have professional networks established in case a situation like this comes up (someone can't do the tour, they need a fill-in, they need someone they can screw over, etc.)

In other words, if they need a touring drummer in the first place, they're not randomly looking for people they don't know. Instead, they start going through their cell phone directories and going down the list of people they do know who'd be a good fit.

Keep in mind that someone being a "good fit" has little to do with how well they can play drums - this is about how well they'd get along with everyone, how much they expect to make (in terms of money), how much bullshit they can put up with, etc.

If you want to be on that list, you need to start networking with the people who can do something for you (you need to figure out exactly who these people are - it's your situation). Establish social relationships, and make sure your new friends know what you're capable of (and how easy you are to get along with).

Quote:

I know that they don't pay a lot...or that they DON't pay sometimes BUT I really enjoy touring and touring is something really good for my carreer here in Italy.

I'd recommend having 3 numbers prepared (mentally speaking):

1. Exactly how much money you're expecting to make (per date or over the entire tour - whichever you can negotiate).

2. Exactly how much money you're willing to settle for (meaning, if your "standard" rate is out of their budget).

3. Exactly how much money you'd need to survive for the course of the tour (have this money saved up in advance, because odds are you won't get paid what you've been promised - maybe nothing at all).

Being professional is about understanding exactly what you're after and what people will value you for. That said, how much do you honestly expect to get paid when the bands you're touring with are making jack themselves?

There's only so much money floating around at a crappy metal show with less than 1000 people attending who are all paying less than $30 a ticket. The people involved with those things are trying to avoid expenses - not create more of them (remember that as a fill-in, you're really just some random drummer with the band - not even a key member. It doesn't matter how good you are - you'll be at the bottom of their priority list when it comes to who they have to pay).

If you expect to make money (any amount of money), you need to go where the money's at. You'll probably get screwed over anyway (again, a fill-in drummer isn't worth much to a promoter that's already in debt to venue owners, lawyers, banks, etc.), but 0.1% of $1,000,000 is still a decent-size number for 1 night's worth of work on your part.

Look for bands who draw serious audiences (1000+/show) or can command large guarantees* (*figuring out who can/can't is pretty simple - follow the money trail - where is the money for those large guarantees coming from? If it sounds too good to be true, it always is).

Get to know the people involved (the musicians, management, promoters, etc.). Concentrate on the shot-callers (the people who would actually make the decision to hire/fire you), but again, you never know who might be your foot in the door, so don't be afraid to talk around.

Here's another tip:

Plenty of musicians will take a loss on a tour to help their career at home (as a drum teacher, clinician, etc.). If this is the case, it's time to budget how much money and time you're willing to loose as an investment in your career back home, and whether or not it'll pay off in the long run.

Will doing this/that tour really give you the clout for commanding more money at your "dayjob", or will it just be a waste of time and energy?

Joined: 16 Oct 2005 Posts: 366 Location: Italy

Thank you for the reply/advices.

I don't really care about making money out of the tour basically I want to learn and gain experience...for my future as a musician.

I believe touring is very important and I had the chance to tour few times, it was not really "funny" but it was important for me...to grow and learn more and more things about drums and live performances.

Joined: 04 Dec 2006 Posts: 2287 Location: Mars

Raphael_chaoswave wrote:

I believe touring is very important and I had the chance to tour few times, it was not really "funny" but it was important for me...to grow and learn more and more things about drums and live performances.

What were some of the things you learned about drums and live performances from touring?

Joined: 16 Nov 2005 Posts: 900 Location: Jkl/Finland

You might not get a job as a drummer on tour at first, so inquire about teching etc too. If you have the knowledge of the whole instrument arsenal, get hired as a backliner. Then you can make your way into situations presenting yourself as a drummer too, by then people will have seen that you can do your stuff on the road well and it's a trusty relationship. Or not

Going back on the road in under 2 months myself, once again as a merchandiser (that's where the real money is

)

Joined: 04 Dec 2006 Posts: 2287 Location: Mars

Gutlord wrote:

You might not get a job as a drummer on tour at first, so inquire about teching etc too. If you have the knowledge of the whole instrument arsenal, get hired as a backliner. Then you can make your way into situations presenting yourself as a drummer too, by then people will have seen that you can do your stuff on the road well and it's a trusty relationship. Or not

Personally, I think that time and energy would be better spent promoting yourself as a drummer.

Look at it this way: let's say you have 2 months and X-amount of energy to throw at something. You can use these things to either:

A) Eat shit on the road setting up somebody else's crap for lousy pay and little (if any) recognition.

B) Make the best set of demo videos anyone's ever seen, setup a personal website, press up 100 copies of those videos on DVD and send them to the 100 most worthwhile people you can contact explaining what you could do for them.

In the rare instance when a band's on tour and someone bails, the first person that band asks to fill in isn't going to be some half-exhausted roadie - it's likely going to be the drummer from one of the other bands - someone who's already comfortable playing 30 minute sets on the regular and is ready to go.

Same goes for off-the-road...

Remember that by the time the tour is over, you've met most everyone involved at some point, including the drummers for the other bands.

You need a drummer and you've got 4 contacts in your cell phone - 3 are capable/experienced drummers (1 of whom just parted ways with their band following the tour). The 4th number is that of a drum tech (that guy who had nothing better to do with his time than haul around some other band's crap all day).

Who do you think is the first person that'll get offered that gig? The killer drummer who just left his other band or the 3rd-rate roadie with no life?

Worse yet, let's say you take that drum tech gig, and right in the middle of tour, you actually get that phone call!

Do you just stop in the middle of tour and say "hey guys, I think I'm gonna go home now - I found something better to do"? Do you just tell your prospect "sorry man...love to do it, but I've got this killer job polishing cymbals and changing guitar strings for $50/day"

What are you trying to be - a drummer or a drum tech?

Joined: 16 Nov 2005 Posts: 900 Location: Jkl/Finland

Talk about a negative take on the subject

All tours and tech spots arent that bad, but I do aknowledge your points. Doing the internet promotion thing is important of course, but you really do make some solid contacts on the road, it's easier to call a guy who you know personally. At least here.

And of course, you don't have to do shitty two month tours

Peace out, do your thing Raffo, you are getting a good name for yourself already!

Joined: 04 Dec 2006 Posts: 2287 Location: Mars

Gutlord wrote:

Talk about a negative take on the subject

Negative or realistic?

I know there are plenty of kids out there "teching" for other drummers purely because they fantasize about the day the regular guy gets hit by a bus and they'll magically become rockstars overnight by coming to the rescue; they think they'll have some sort of magic "in" when that happens.

In the real world, things rarely (if ever) work that way. With all the time you'll waste hoping for that lottery ticket, you could be doing things that'll actually benefit your drumming career.

Quote:

All tours and tech spots arent that bad, but I do aknowledge your points. Doing the internet promotion thing is important of course, but you really do make some solid contacts on the road, it's easier to call a guy who you know personally.

Exactly what kind of impression do you think you're giving these "solid contacts" when all you're doing with your life is eating shit as a roadie?

If your aim is to be a drummer, why aren't you already doing just that?

Perhaps you can play drums, but you suck at learning songs or writing drum parts? Maybe you have a hard time getting along with people? Maybe your stage presence blows? Maybe you just can't take care of yourself financially, physically, etc., which is why you'd be/have been problematic as a band member?

Being a roadie/tech/hanger-on/shit-kicker is one thing if you're under 21 or just desperate for a job, but if you honestly have nothing better to do with your time as an adult, what does that say about where your goals are?

You honestly have nothing better to do than be on the road 24/7 for weeks on end lugging around someone else's shit for dirt pay?

If what you want to do is join a band and tour, why aren't you starting/joining a band with the aim of doing just that? (so you wouldn't have to sit around praying one of these established bands will end up in some shit so you can piggy-back off their success?)

Quote:

And of course, you don't have to do shitty two month tours

You could do shitty 1-month tours instead?

It's still a waste of time and energy (unless you're trying to build your career as a drum tech).

Joined: 16 Nov 2005 Posts: 900 Location: Jkl/Finland

I just can't be arsed to even reply to this properly

Being a fundie must be fun..

Btw. how much do you make per day in your job?

Joined: 10 Nov 2005 Posts: 141 Location: Ireland

Sugar has a good point Gutlord, and that a dream is highly implausible need not stop certain people from dreaming it. I've been called 'negative' and 'cynic' for saying similar things, usually by the people who have some kind of emotional investment in the subject matter, and their judgement tends to be clouded by their desires.

Personally, I'd choose making a pro-video over playing some metal shows but that's me.

On the subject of touring, I recently came across this little “cry-baby” rant:

http://www.metalsucks.net/2010/07/19/trap-thems-ryan-mckenney-responds-to-sacha-dunables-metalsucks-column/

Joined: 16 Nov 2005 Posts: 900 Location: Jkl/Finland

emptywords wrote:

Sugar has a good point Gutlord, and that a dream is highly implausible need not stop certain people from dreaming it

Good point, but what an attitude

Joined: 12 Aug 2009 Posts: 68

Don't be fooled hes only a hard ass because hes telling you whats best without softening it (and because its more interesting this way).

Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 5:09 am

Gutlord, I don´t know why you even bother :D

Rule #1: Never assume anything...say like everyone not(I was going to write about sycophants but I´m trying to be polite and nice) obligingly toeing the line set by the resident prophet and guru are delusional teenagers, scum or trash with no experience of the harsh reality of life in general or the music business or back up plans etc. Or that while said guru does have a lot of valid points and a few that can be taken as cautionary tales once you wade through the...hmmmm...coloring brought on by quite a fundamentalist mindset, the "hard ass" and "what´s best without the sugar coating" necessarily isn´t always that, but more a sprinkling of facts very biased to support a certain, absolute and uncompromising view on life, at times a rather unhealthy attitude towards people and should be taken with a grain of salt. OR that the rest of the world is like the United States.

Joined: 10 Nov 2005 Posts: 141 Location: Ireland

Uh-oh, sounds like somebody is offended; playing the hurt feelings card eh? --“You should be more supportive / positive / open-minded and not dismiss the aspirations of others based on your own biased prejudices, etc” And what about the biases of the person who dreams of success? How did they arrive at their conclusions? Scepticism or dunking positive illusions often receives the bad rap reserved for activities like waste disposal, a process that absolutely must be done for a safe and sane life, but seem either unglamourous or unworthy of overt celebration in mass society.

Similarly, when an atheist and a religious apologetic sit down to a discussion, the latter often resorts to calling the former strident, insensitive or just plain rude and not contributing anything helpful, simply because he has no other valid argument to call upon. The bigger the potential threat, the more self-protective the vain brain becomes, and it's why smart people are very good at defending beliefs which they arrived at for not so smart reasons. Usually, the stronger the yearning, the greater the confidence and it's also why trying to persuade others can be sometimes futile. I do think we have a price to pay for a blinkered view.

Look at how many people believe in alternative therapy; homeopathy, astrology, etc. These people will swear that it's rude to dismiss these things as based on wishful thinking, because in their mind, it works for them. Sad.